PanoTools NG:
Re: Chilling effect on archiva, was DMCA...
dmgalpha 2007-Jun-16 22:53:46
Let me start again, to avoid any misunderstandings, and personal
attacks:
* This list does not provide a license to reuse the messages.
* By default, you do not give a license to anybody to repost your messages
(except in some message I have seen from you, to yahoo groups).
* You are claiming copyright infringement because your creation is
posted without a license (it is not plagiarism).
* If I take some of your postings, and I use them in my website
you might one day come after me unless I get a license from you.
I think those are facts that are indisputable.
Now, with respect to pano13:
I LIcense my code under the terms of the GPL
1 * If you reuse/redistribute my code it has to be under the terms
of the GPL and you do not need to contact me.
2 * If you want to do something else, then a) you ask me for a
license; b) you do it illegally.
Again, these are facts.
The case you cite (me after somebody else--pano13) falls under 2 (at
least in my view).
You are, can, and will go after who you think is violating your
copyright. This is also a fact, which I dont' dispute.
What I want is for this list to have a terms of use and a license of
reusing content that allows derivative works as long as certain
conditions are satisfied (such as, perhaps, no commercial gain).
Why?
Let us assume yahoo groups disappears tomorrow. According to precedent
(such as your claim) it is risky to copy and rehost the archives
somewhere else. why? because you or somebody else can come after
whoever does it claiming copyright violation.
Unless the content is licensed (at the moment it is created) it is
impractical to expect to be relicensed.
So I guess at the core of the problem the fundamental question is, why
does this list exist? And how can we guarantee that it continues to
fulfill its goals in the future?
In my opinion the archives are an important part of this list goals,
they are valuable, and should be preserved. If the list thinks
otherwise that will be a loss, IMO.
Now, let us assume I start to cherry pick messages from this list
an organize them. Let us call it the "best of the panotools".
Without a license from each content creator I will
fear somebody claiming copyright infringement.
Of course there is the provision of fair use (I have the feeling that
the use you claim could be argued as fair use, and I also feel
that you were not going to go to court after reposting of 6
email messages). Why?
* They are excerpts (from your contributions to the list--this is
very debatable, and the reason it has to be resolved by a judge)
* They don't affect your potential market
* The nature of the type of work (few lines from thousands that
flow in this list every day --again, debatable).
* You are attributed.
* The nature of the commercial gain from your postings. He is not
selling access to them.
daniel
--- In #removed#, Yuval Levy <yahoo06@...> wrote:
>
> Daniel,
>
> dmgalpha wrote:
> > Yuv (although this message is for the board),
>
> this board has set a separate list to discuss governance issue, the
> discussion should continue there:
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Panotools-List/>
>
> However, since that list is limited only to those subscribed and since
> you make statements here about me that I feel are incorrect and
> incomplete, I will answer them in the place where they were uttered.
>
>
> > Trying to enforce copyright on somebody who has gathered postings
> > and perhaps organize them to make them accessible sets a bad
> > precedent (He is using the original messages, crediting you, not
> > creating a derivative without crediting you).
>
>
> Interesting that this is coming from you - the guy who has enforced his
> copyright on the code in the panotools library. What was the motivation
> again to retire your copyrighted code from the pano12.dll?
>
> The specific target of my DMCA is using my messages out of context.
This
> is even worse than a derivative without credits.
>
>
> > THe biggest issue with this is that you are saying: "I don't want
> > anybody to archive" my messages".
>
> NO. What I am saying is very different. What I am saying is "I don't
> want anybody to abuse my text", and it is the same as you saying "I
> don't want anybody to abuse my code".
>
> I respect your intellectual property. I respect your code. This is why
> when I use PTgui I use it with the old libpano prior to your
> contribution, and I use your code exactly as you request in your
license.
>
>
<http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20070123211605....>
>
> Your code is governed by GPL. My text is governed by
> <http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/utos-173.html> and I expect
> usage of my text to respect my intellectual property.
>
> I am in favor of archives if they respect
> <http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines> which is the result of a
> collective process. I have not issued DMCA against any other archive
out
> there because those other archives are respectful of my intellectual
> property and of me as an author.
>
>
> > The list should be open about reuse of its information.
>
> re-use yes. abuse no.
>
>
> > ANd perhaps
> > should change its terms-of-use to force a Creative Commons license
> > that guarantees that the content will not die the day the list
> > dies.
>
> this has already been collectively discussed on
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Panotools-List/> and the result is
> <http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines>
>
> If you have a feeling that <http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines>
> can be improved (there is always room for improvement), feel free to
> comment to the appropriate forum.
>
>
> > It is kind of ironic that mailing list that was created to support
> > software licensed under the GPL (which allows anybody to copy
> > the software as long as they allow anybody else to copy it itself,
> > among other things) is trying to close its information from
> > being disseminated.
>
> It is kind of ironic that the coder who insists so much on respect of
> his intellectual property is willing to consider a different
standard of
> proection for others intellectual property.
>
> Yuv
>
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