PanoTools:
RE: Re: Need help stitching my helicopter panorama!
Edward Fink 2005-Jun-08 22:13:35
I'm definitely leaning toward a monopod or pole now, so I'm less
dependent on the pilot. One of the reasons I haven't tried it already
is I have a D70, and I'd have to pull the camera back in each time to
dial in the self timer and shoot the next one.
I use a card reader and I've never hooked up my camera to my PC,
but I'm considering that so I can get a USB extension cable and use the
laptop to fire the shutter. Definitely have to test that first though,
and I'd have to get the client (who rides along) to run the laptop so I
can hold the pole and rotate the camera.
I'm worried about the USB cable - I don't know how much the
downdraft will blow the camera and USB cable, especially if it picks up
a rhythm and starts swinging wildly.
I may have to rent a camera with a wired remote or radio remote.
There's a place here in Minneapolis that I can get a good Canon or Nikon
for $150 a day. They also have Hasselblad's and Mamiya's with digital
backs for $300 a day that sound kind of tempting if I really do have to
use a different camera.
But I'd prefer to stick to my D70 or as close to it as I can
just to cut down on the number of variables. I don't really want to be
frantically thumbing through unfamiliar menus while hovering at 2500' if
something gets bumped or something doesn't look right. Several times
Monday I accidentally spun the dial from Manual to some random setting.
It was the awkward angle from leaning out the helicopter holding the
camera down and out that caused me to roll the dial. I wasted a total
of maybe 8 shots. Sometimes I felt it roll and pulled it back and reset
it quickly. With an unfamiliar camera, I might never have noticed or
been able to correct it fast enough.
Twice now I've called my son in a panic while shooting (not in
the helicopter!) to ask him to check the D70 manual again and tell me
how to change the monitor from the 9 tiny thumbnails back to the
fullscreen playback so I could see it. I remember that setting now. :)
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: #removed# [mailto:#removed#] On
Behalf Of tflyfish2002
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:45 PM
To: #removed#
Subject: [PanoTools] Re: Need help stitching my helicopter panorama!
Edward,
You are a glutton for punishment, surely, at the prices you are paying
for chopper rental you can afford a remote release?
You should bear in mind that parallax will be next to impossible to
eliminate whilst shooting from a Chopper. The military goes to great
expense to try to maintain a stationary chopper during rescue,
deployment of troops etc, but I can tell you from personal expericance
it is just not possible to do so. Film and News camermen have very
expensive equipment fitted to their choppers to get as steady a
platform as is possible, but if you watch any broadcast from a chopper
you will see that it's anything bit steady. Even when the wind is zero
on the ground, it probally will not be at 1000ft, by the time the
pilot has yawed the Chopper through 360 degrees you will have moved
quite a bit off center. I cann't see any method other than my inverted
monopod, or lighting pole working. Just rotate the pole fairly quickly
whilst shooting a number of shots with the motor drive. Pitch or roll
should not be to much of a problem. If you take say, 10-15 shots in
one rotation of your pole in two or three seconds, you should not have
drifted to much. If your camera cannot keep up with this frame rate
then rent one that can. I am sure that both Nikon and Canon have
suitable cameras.
GPS might be useful to establish where your photo's were taken, but I
am not sure how a handheld device would work in a chopper. You might
ask the pilot.
Barry
n #removed#, "Edward Fink" <#removed#> wrote:
> It seemed so much easier before I tried to do it. :)
>
> My lessons so far are:
>
> #1 Don't go with a pilot who says he'll do his best - find one
> that says "I'm damn good - ABSOLUTELY I can maintain exact position."
> (I haven't found this guy yet though.)
>
> #2 Be patient and wait for ZERO wind, even if you have to wait a
> week or more. That tip probably won't help if you are supposed to
shoot
> a panorama over a live event. :)
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: #removed# [mailto:#removed#] On
> Behalf Of James Coffee
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 11:56 AM
> To: #removed#
> Subject: Re: [PanoTools] Need help stitching my helicopter panorama!
>
> If nothing else this thread is making me much more appreciative of
shots
> taken from a helicopter. I'm the kind of guy who when someone asks
"can
> you do..." I say yes. I hope no one asks me to photograph from a
> helicopter and then stitch. I'll have to try to remember to say no.
>
> -Jim Coffee-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Fink
> To: #removed#
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:37 AM
> Subject: RE: [PanoTools] Need help stitching my helicopter panorama!
>
>
> Well, I got another chance at the helicopter panorama on
Monday,
> but so far I haven't had any better luck stitching than last week.
>
> The helicopter company decided not give a discount for retakes
-
> it cost the same $500 per hour as the first time, so I STRONGLY
> emphasized to the pilot AGAIN the need to maintain position.
>
> We went with what we thought was the easiest, simplest way:
> having the pilot pirouette in position while I sat behind him and
> leaned
> out as far as I could, shooting continuously around the circle. We
> went
> with Bernhard's suggestion to try and rotate as fast as possible,
> hoping
> I could finish a set before he drifted too far.
>
> We didn't move as much as last week, but we moved off center -
> it looks our circle covered about a one block radius. So far I
> haven't
> got a good stitch out of it.
>
> Out of desperation I finally used one of the photos as a map,
> and I drew arrows showing our location, and the direction the camera
> was
> facing. I made each arrow a separate Photoshop layer and named it
the
> same as the image name so I can use the map to select what images to
> try.
>
> That really helped a lot to understand our movement, and by
> stacking up the different passes on top of each other I was able to
> find
> some places where a shot from the second pass better matches
something
> on the first pass, and vice versa.
>
> Unfortunately, I found at least a couple of places where I had
> three of the compass points (4 shots with my D70/Sigma 8mm) fairly
> close
> together, but then the shot for the last compass point was two
blocks
> away. I haven't yet tried to stitch some of the new combinations
that
> I've found because of the map, but that's the next step.
>
> It took many hours to create the map. The hardest part for
me,
> without any flying experience, was looking at the images and trying
to
> figure out EXACTLY what the helicopter is over. Sometimes I thought
I
> was looking at the west side of a building, but when I looked again
> later, I realized that it was just the shadow, and not the actual
side
> of the building, meaning I was really at least slightly east of the
> building instead of west.
>
> The taller the building, the more perspective clues, but our
> wide circle went over several parking lots and small buildings that
> make
> it a lot harder to judge exactly where we were.
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd pass that info along while I
continue
> trying to stitch different combinations of the pictures. If anyone
> wants to see the flattened version of my map with all the location
> arrows to show how much the drift was, they're at:
>
> http://new-eden.com/temp/MapLowPasses.jpg
> http://new-eden.com/temp/MapHighPasses.jpg
>
> We really want the lower altitude (2500') shots, be we tried
> some at a higher altitude too, thinking that would give me more
slack
> even if the pilot drifted. No such luck so far.
>
> (The arrow point is the estimated helicopter position, the direction
> is
> the camera direction. The really long arrows on the low altitude map
> indicate nadir shots that don't extend to the horizon. It's faster
to
> draw a long arrow than change colors. The landing skids are so
visible
> in the nadirs that to use them you'd probably need a pair almost
> perfectly 180 degree apart.)
>
> Thanks again to everyone for the many tips and suggestions!
If
> the client doesn't dump me instead of the pilot, I may eventually
have
> a
> chance to try ALL your suggestions!
>
> If I get another pilot, I'd like to show him everyone's
> suggestions and see what he'd prefer.
>
> Right now my tentative plan, if I get a third chance, is to
try
> and take more responsibility instead of leaving so much to the
pilot,
> and put the camera on a pole horizontally and (hopefully) rotate it
> before the pilot can drift so far. (The way Willy shoots out over a
> railing.) I've got a heavy duty, 12' telescoping light stand, and
I'm
> going to stick my camera on that and do some tests out the window.
> That
> should also help me better deal with the landing skids. This time I
> leaned as far out as my seat belt would let me, then I held my
camera
> out as far as the neck strap would allow, and I STILL got a lot of
> landing skid in the pictures.
>
>
> Ed
> #removed#
> http://www.new-eden.com/
> No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.
> -- Jim Morrison --
>
>
>
>
>
>
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